piecemealing a turbo

[Blackcloud]

well i thought I had a turbo. turned out it wasn't quiet what it appeared. seller was very honest when I called him so it is a no go.
 
what I'm wondering now is If I piecemeal one what isn't off the shelf obviously plenum and header, but what else must I buy custom?
Phil

[1slowBUSA]

i thought about going this way but it would be a pain in the ass, u would need a turbo, header, charge pipe, plenum, oil lines(return and feed)blow off valve, wastegate, vacuum lines,connectors, gaskets,hardware,fittings, and tools
dont buy a knock off turbo from ebay they will run for a little bit but their unreliable.
do wat i did, i found a used turbo kit from a 99 busa
and im putting it together rite now but im still missing a charge pipe and a plenum
this guy would make it all his name is tony also known as gsxrtony
i heard nothing but good about this guy,he always answers my emails and questions
and hes pretty fair with his prices

[Dan.J]

lots of good kits for a decent price are allways coming through the boards... i possibly might know of a mcX kit with secondary's and intercooled that might be for sale....ill let ya know if i hear somthing

[kurtsbusa]

I have a plenum for sale  it has never been used

[Dave.C]

If you have access to, or are yourself a decent fabricator and are a bit adventuress there is no reason you could not do you own setup the toughest part is the plenum and header system fabrication the rest is byeing the correct parts.  if you go this way I would get ahold of Pinky he will help you with the right parts. if done correctly you should be able to do this for less than $1500 dollars for a stage1 type kit the fab work is the big question if you cant do it yourself it is going to cost a bunch more

[Blackcloud]

Pinkey has been very helpful with info already. although this is the first I have mentioned piecemealing. I have limited fabrication ability. I can bend pipe (access to exhaust bender) and have a Miller wirefeed and a spoolgun set up for aluminum. I don't have a milling machine but keep looking at them.
 the thing is, I don't think the header possibly even the plenum would be worth my time. I could see spending a bunch of time building the perfect header only to have it melting plastic or hitting something. as for a plenum, not having one in front of me to copy would make for a lot of work. so I expect I would buy them.
And there are so many things with Bike turbos that I'm ignorant about, If I go stage 2 can I use stock injectors? as the secondary injectors to save money
I would love to see a complete parts list.  not just "fittings", or see a detailed set of directions. just to see what is there other than the fabricated parts, after-all I have access to Jegs/Summit and Granger's
Phil

[Chris Horoho]

Pinkey has been very helpful with info already. although this is the first I have mentioned piecemealing. I have limited fabrication ability. I can bend pipe (access to exhaust bender) and have a Miller wirefeed and a spoolgun set up for aluminum. I don't have a milling machine but keep looking at them.
 the thing is, I don't think the header possibly even the plenum would be worth my time. I could see spending a bunch of time building the perfect header only to have it melting plastic or hitting something. as for a plenum, not having one in front of me to copy would make for a lot of work. so I expect I would buy them.
And there are so many things with Bike turbos that I'm ignorant about, If I go stage 2 can I use stock injectors? as the secondary injectors to save money
I would love to see a complete parts list.  not just "fittings", or see a detailed set of directions. just to see what is there other than the fabricated parts, after-all I have access to Jegs/Summit and Granger's
Phil

email h1050d@yahoo.com (gsxturbo)
he might be able to aid you in fabbing some of these parts
he is also here so you could post a thread asking him ?s if youd like
he is my builder also

[Dave.C]

Hey Blackcloud if you are any good at all with the welder you can do it yourself,  the intake plenum does not have to be aluminum I have seen a couple of homemade setups that look dam good useing steel exaust tubing then it could be painted or powder coated its really just a matter of patience cutting and making all the parts fit good before welding and the header could be done from scratch with flanges and prebent tubing or you could start with a stock header and cut it up.  hey the weathers crappy out what else is there to do LOL LOL

[OzBooster]

With the price of Rcc headers and the quality your probably better off just buying , you know there will be no probs with oil drain,fit or finish.
If you think about each section of a turbo kit its not hard to see what parts are needed.
oil system is pretty basic, oil supply needs to come off the engine somewhere, there is the oil pressure switch which can be tee'd into or gallerys with external plugs across the front of the engine .  Oil return needs to get back into the sump, with low restriction as the oil can be aerated and slow moving (1/2 or 5/8 pipe) bulkhead fittings or weld on .
Fuel system will be the most complicated, pumps filters wiring, fittings,regulator,.. most of that will vary depending on what type of system you want to run.

[Chris Horoho]

you have the fabbed parts

header
plenum
charge tube
dump/exaust
and wastegate flanges(piping)

then you have the main parts
turbo
wastegate
BOV(optional)
fueling system (FMU/or fuel reg and secondaries)
upgraded fuel pump

then you have the less main parts but still required
like plumbing for fuel, oil

when it comes down to it there is a lot more then some realize to build a reliable turbo kit
if you slack on some parts it will come back to haunt you

[Blackcloud]

kurtsbusa sent me pictures of a very nice plenum (nice price to) If you need one take a look at his. turns out this is one of the parts I can fab. Header, no way if I go turbo I'll buy that. I conceder the header to be the most critical part for proper fit.
Is their anything getting welded to, or cut off the turbo itself.
how is an external wastegate connected to the system
and another question I've wondered many times How much markup is there in the parts that come from jegs IE fuel pump, earls fittings autometer gage, If a person was to go to a turbo builder and say sell me all the fab parts and an exact parts list would he save any money?
Phil

[Gsxturbo]

If you stay with a standard 5 bolt flanged T3 ex. housing then the waste gate will weld onto your dump flange,if you go with some of the newer type ex housings with the 4 bolt flange then you have two options.

1 machine a hole in the ex housing so you can weld a elbow in to attach the wastegate.

2 add a flange to the header to attach the wastegate.

1 is the most popular choice because its much easier to fit and works real well.


Your not going to save much by buying everything from a builder separate you probably end up paying just as much if you just bought a whole kit .

But if you do enough searching you can find everything you would need to do it on a budget but do not scrimp on the major parts because that could come back and bite you in the end fueling is a must when it comes to turbos so if you go the stage one route be sure to always keep an eye your setup or you will be on here wanting pistons and needing a rebuild.LOL

[Busafied]

I built mine 
Patience, and watch the boards you can PIECE a system together for alot less then you think, but it takes patience- lots of patience.

I built mine with one base premise- only build the header once for the only turbo I would ever need.
- bought a Turbonetics T61/T4 large frame for less then half of list from a guy cleaning out his shop in 2005.
- bought a HKS Style 50MM wastegate (I did not want to deal with boost Creep- seen to many people jack their motors because of it).
- built a base (turbo headr and gate) that would flow/support mid to upper 500 hp range (more then I thought I would ever need).
- chose the stage one style setup (RR FMU - begi cartech 2025) to cheat the stock setup and get boosted.
- picked up a Carquest fuel pump everyone was using (125 psi).
- bought a slightly used stage 1 RCC plenum, and viola - Boosted.
- bought 2 guages - autometer liquid filled boost gage onsale online, and a fuel pressure gauge also onsale locally though.

The guys that posted here will tell you, you can do it, but you must have the commitment to endure the work ahead of you.

As the guys mentioned piece milling new unused parts will almost certainly cost you slightly if not substantially more then a kit.

GL -

Ron

[1BADASSBUSA]

I DO NOT recommend building a Turbo Kit this way.  You START WITH THE RIGHT TURBO!!!!  Don't EVER go cheap on the Turbo.  If you look for a Turbo this way, you are going to be dissappointed.  Mopst people will buy a T3/T4 and just go by those factors.  Do you realize how many versions of the T3/T4 there are?  Just the difference in A.R., Trim, ect........

I saw someone mention a T61/T4.  Now this set-up will make good power at the track, but with such a bigger turbine and small compressor it's not going to respond on the street.  Now a T3 turbine housing will make over 500HP with no problem and spool up much faster on the street than a T4 will.  I use a T4 on my T71, but will be making over 700+HP.  Change compressors and A.R. and my point becomes more obvious.

Buy a TURBO for exactly WHAT YOU NEED, don't buy a TURBO that will be more than you ever will use.  On a car with a good size motor, you will not notice a problem, run a big turbo on a 1.2 liter motor and you will see how important picking the right turbo is.

I don't want to be that guy who is a NAY SAYER, but I see on many boards people choosing the most important part based on this method.  Unless you have built a BUNCH of kits YOURSELF, don't be picking your own turbo, have someone pick it for you.  Unless you have riden a bunch of different QUALITY KITS you will NEVER know how much yours is lacking.  I rode a guys bike that dynoed at 400HP and I would roast him on my bike that made only 351HP and my bike was fun too ride.  On a dyno you can get a turbo to spin just by waiting, on the street every second is an eternity...

Remember on a bike, BIGGER is not always BETTER.  You want your kit to work in the real world, not just on disscussion boards online.

You put all kinds of work and $ into a Turbo build and it runs like crap, you are going too be kicking yourself in the ass and never figure out the problem.....

[Busafied]

You touched on several good points

Using a smaller turbine will come on earlier but it will also reach max cap early.
Go larger on the compressor and it will lag.
There is a fine balance, again as you mentioned- it is best to design it where you intend to run it..Turbo shops will do this.
Street you will want to boost early, to bring the power on for street riding racing wtfe. 

For faster spooling on the street racing scene, Velo was using the GT25  & GT28's & MCX used to use the K27/K26 modded turbos and since went to another which I don't know, TMH was using the T3/T4.

Your larger systems use the GT30,35,40 variants all the way up-

My turbo Turbonetics T61 was chosen for a few reasons, mid 500 hp (not that I may EVER even see or use it) I wanted to have plenty of power on tap to try my hand at top speed racing.

Whether or not it will ever get used for that purpose has yet to be seen.

When I picked this setup, I did my research, I talked with Seb & he told me what I needed to know, as well did 2 others.

The T-61 is not a T61 alot of people mix them up.
My T61 has had no problem spooling, probably because I am not running an AR on the turbine the size of a big assed woman either/

But no it doesn't run like the K26/27 setup I originally made either- two totally different setups, 2 totally different intended uses.

I talked with Turbonetics  about what I wanted, and they helped me make the choice of turbines.

The turbo will support mid to upper 500hp, yet is still streetable without being like a pogo stick on roids like the K26 was.

but as you mentioned- you have no idea of my intended end use of the system I designed.

Pick your poison, build it YOURSELF if you want to or BUY one form a vendor if you want to.

I can tell you a million reason why you shouldn't do it from my own experiences, as well as most anyone here who has boost.

Build or buy it, if you buy it buy from Richard he is a top notch guy, or of course Seb if you can afford him.
I cannot afford Seb, so I built mine, then recently started upgrading parts from Richard and others who are upgrading their own.

I have watched Richard on endless posts and boards, answer and give help to people who have bought others kits as well as his own, including myself.
Hell look at this board and others, alot of good info here, and experienced people for building your own if you choose.

But I cannot forget as you said many times, "Turbo bikes are not for those on a budget."

Speaking for myself, mine was built on a budget & I may not have endless cash like some, but I still enjoy the HELL outta my kit, I made myself. 

[1BADASSBUSA]

Busaified, Richard is the BEST, you hit the nail on the head.  I send EVERYONE in his direction if they want too buy a quality off the shelf kit.  Richard is a good friend of mine and believe me, he is actually that nice of a guy, it's not just because of the business and customers.

I would say, if you don't have the money to buy one, then build it.  You have so many good people here, we will get you threw it!!!! 

We all may have differing opinions on things, but all the information is good.  Except for PINKY, don't listen too anything that joker tells you......   

[Blackcloud]

I'm pretty good at fab work but ended up buying a finished turbo for the very reasons mentioned above. one time I'm really glad I didn't end up spending a dollar to save a dime.

[1BADASSBUSA]

I'm pretty good at fab work but ended up buying a finished turbo for the very reasons mentioned above. one time I'm really glad I didn't end up spending a dollar to save a dime.

What is also not being mentioned here is the amount of Turbos there are out there.  Do you know neither Richard, Seb. or and of the others will tell you the turbos they use in thier kits.  Sure Richard says Modified Hybrid T3/T4 and you think that helps.  There are so many combinations this turbo comes in you could try 20 different turbos and never find one that spools correctly.  What about SURGE, how easy would it be to pic the wrong turbo and have this occur?

Pick they wrong Turbo and watch what happens.  When your buddy is taking off your turbo is still spooling and once you get to your 8 psi, you are still so low in the compressor map, your still not running in the most efficient map island.  Or your turbine housing is wrong and the turbo comes on too soon, spinning the tire everywhere.  And it could either Surge or choke up....

Now if you put the wrong turbo on, your bike will be no fun to ride or will be unrideable.  Or worst you blow your shit up.  How much money did you save???

I am not saying piecing a Turbo system together is totally a bad idea for someone like TONY or myself, but we have been dealing with Turbo systems a while. I personally have owned more than 5 kits and installed and tuned and worked with them.  AND I STILL LIKE HELP WITH TURBO SELECTION....

Six now or a 1/2 dozen later, it's your choice................

[Gsxturbo]

What is also not being mentioned here is the amount of Turbos there are out there.  Do you know neither Richard, Seb. or and of the others will tell you the turbos they use in thier kits.  Sure Richard says Modified Hybrid T3/T4 and you think that helps.  There are so many combinations this turbo comes in you could try 20 different turbos and never find one that spools correctly.  What about SURGE, how easy would it be to pic the wrong turbo and have this occur?

Pick they wrong Turbo and watch what happens.  When your buddy is taking off your turbo is still spooling and once you get to your 8 psi, you are still so low in the compressor map, your still not running in the most efficient map island.  Or your turbine housing is wrong and the turbo comes on too soon, spinning the tire everywhere.  And it could either Surge or choke up....

Now if you put the wrong turbo on, your bike will be no fun to ride or will be unrideable.  Or worst you blow your shit up.  How much money did you save???

I am not saying piecing a Turbo system together is totally a bad idea for someone like TONY or myself, but we have been dealing with Turbo systems a while. I personally have owned more than 5 kits and installed and tuned and worked with them.  AND I STILL LIKE HELP WITH TURBO SELECTION....

Six now or a 1/2 dozen later, it's your choice................

+1

You can spend tons trying to get the right setup to work and sometimes its just better to use something that works i have spent quite a bit of money just on tools to be able to build my stuff,and just like Joey said its ALOT more than just a T3/T4 turbo you have B series E series T series compressors then all the different series of turbine housings and that just in the off the self standard Garrett turbos then you have all the different series of GT Garrett turbos,Airworks,KKKxx,turbonetics,MP,rotomaster,ect it can get overwhelming at the different choices and sizes.

There is always different ways to do something i always liked doing everything my self thats why i build everything including the MS controllers for the secondaries  so i know every part of the system in and out.

I learn something new everyday from doing this stuff and if someone wants a learning experience then go for it you will learn  about how it all works but like others have said you might end up spending more doing it your self then buying one off the self.

[1BADASSBUSA]

Yeah what he said...