CBR 929 Homebuilt turbo. Need help finishing, and Welcome!

[zfrilly]

 Hello everyone. I'm new to this site. Just stumbed on it today. I've been building a turbo system for a CBR 929. It's been a long slow process. I'm about to get it wrapped up and just had a few questions. I'll start with what I've got going on. It's a 2001 Erion Racing CBR929. I found a used T25 turbo off a 240sx to use. It has an internal wastegate set for 7lbs. I made a header (it's a log style to keep the turbo high). I'm just running the boost into the stock airbox. I have a blow off valve also mounted in the "ram-air" on the stock air box. I'm doing this to help with altitude problems. I live at 9200 feet and ride everthing from 5000 to 11000 feet. I have a full thread going at fireblades.biz. It's too much to post here. There are a lot of pics. Anything you see I screwed up please let me know.
 What I need some help with is the radiator overflow and a PVC system. I'm not sure what to use for a radiator overflow as the turbo mow mounts in the old location. I also need a way to vent the engine with blowing oil everywhere. Do people use some sort of accumulator like on a car? I have a 1995 Turbo Mustang Cobra and it has a lot of blow by with the turbo. Will the bike do this? Well, thanks for any help I get. I'm going to be reading a lot of threads to try and catch up.

[Chris Horoho]

Stock airbox won't handle the pressure

[WerxRacing]

 you found the site for the info. yes a accumulator is a plus. one member took a aspirin bottle & made one with a few tine holes to help it breath. where is it you are located. some of our members may be able to look it over & help even more with some hands on & advice.

WELCOME to the site also.

[zfrilly]

I like the asprin bottle idea, never thought of something so simple. I'm in Colorado. The stock airbox seems prety stout, it does seem to be a worry, but I had no way to fabricate something better. The way the airbox meets the throttle bodies is not jus a slip on boot, but some special flange. I'm doing this on a budget and couldn't afford to have something machined.

[WerxRacing]

u not to far off.. some one here may help u fab or give great ideas on what to do. u got a link to the .biz post om ur build? we would like to see this project

[zfrilly]

Sorry there is a lot of bullshitting in here as well....http://fireblades.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=890

[OzBooster]

Your going to need a proper airbox,, nothing special about the velocity stacks needed, a piece of aluminium tube (or steel if you don't mind a slight weight disadvantage) the correct size for your throttlebodies , cut to about 2" can be flaired a little on the inlet side by someone that does car exhausts   .
if you have the honda bolt on flange on the throttlebodies , with a flat plate and short tubes you make an adaptor

[OzBooster]

nearly forgot, i have ridden a mates turbo blade, nice bike  he runs a gt28r turbo on his roadbike and is building a 929 dragbike with gt30

[WerxRacing]

ok, so on page 9 of your thread i see the vstacks. looks like to me u can trash the air box, keep stacks & build a box off the stacks. a round one or any idea u wish. heck of a cut on page 11 or i think 12 when you was fab'n. look around here at some of the builds here. guys make there our kits. will help on idea for your air manifold. is the 954 a longer swing arm or just stronger?

[zfrilly]

I'll get some pics of the flange Honda uses. I tried fabbing some sort of fiberglss airbox, but it sucked. Wish I woulda found this site awhile ago. I see a lot of people on here are using FMU's. I thought about that and then gave up thinking the PCIIIr would work. Now I'm questionable. The 954 swingarm is said to be stiffer. There is no difference in length. I just liked the look better.

[WerxRacing]

well i do fiberglass work, do ultra lite bodys, hoods for mustangs, even the complete body for the sunbeam tiger ( that is for autocross guys). u could make it work, BUT after u make it about 1.5 to 2 inches thick. so a aluminum or steel is a bit less weight & takes up a lot less space. lol. i seen the box u was making. good idea for a  metal one. looks like u can fab. so hit local metal shops on a weekend & get your budge build materials. lol. a good 3 to 4 inch tube a few pieces of plate. you get the idea. 

[zfrilly]

 I understand I will more than likely need a new airbox. For now, I want to try this and see what happens. I'll be getting an aluminum one together. Ideas are appreciated. It's nice to talk to people who have done this, I've just been winging it. Anyways, I now have a few questions. Should I just go ahead and buy the FMU now, and what ratio will I need. Should I buy a larger intank pump? I have found 255lph automotive pumps that will fit. Will that be enough? I have a set of 954 injector available. They are supposed to have a better spray pattern but I do not know if te CC's is larger. Is it even worth the time to change them? I was soooo close to having this done, I though, untill I found this site. Now I am wondering. I really want to get it done soon, budget is low so please let me know what I NEED. I have video of it running. It's not great but it gives you an idea. I started it before that, it wasn't being revved entirely cold.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbXmVfgVdQQ

[Chris Horoho]

255 lph will be fine for your application
and id get a begi or rcc FMU they are adjustable rate (but i would look into the future at going with a secondary setup for better fueling)

[zfrilly]

The BEGI one is like $250 I've seen the cheaper ones for around 100 and there is a Vortech one going for about 100. Is it really needed or can I get a cheaper one at a specific rate?

[Chris Horoho]

have to add a 1:1 reg to that price because they dont adjust the fuel pressure the rcc and begi do

[zfrilly]

So I need an adjustabl fuel pressure regulator as well? Do I NEED this stuff, will the stock fuel system not keep up with even small amounts of boost? These are questions I've been going over in my head for awhile. Will the power commander not give me enough adjustment? I just ordered the fuel pump. I figure it can't hurt no matter what. I'm looking at the other stuff now. I want this done, but it really adds up. I'm still looking at $400 for tuning.

[Chris Horoho]

stock pump, reg and (power commander alone) wont do the job even for smaller amounts of boost
 

[zfrilly]

Good to hear from someone who's done it before wasting money getting it tuned only to blow it up and not get a proper tune with the correct parts. It's really hard for me to fork over $250 for an FMU, is there less expensive approach?

[zfrilly]

Also, I see everyone seems to use a check valve in line with the map sensor. There are aftermarket sensors that go to 4 bar. Why not use one of those? Doesn't the open check valve create a boost leak?

[Chris Horoho]

Good to hear from someone who's done it before wasting money getting it tuned only to blow it up and not get a proper tune with the correct parts. It's really hard for me to fork over $250 for an FMU, is there less expensive approach?

not really
the begi is around 219 to be honest if you know where to look
if you get the vortech 6:1 you still need a FPR to adjust the fuel pressure
or you could get a super fmu from vortech (its only a woppin 350 vs the 250)

[Chris Horoho]

Also, I see everyone seems to use a check valve in line with the map sensor. There are aftermarket sensors that go to 4 bar. Why not use one of those? Doesn't the open check valve create a boost leak?

yes it does but youd have to hack your ecu and change the parameters to get it to work right
the stock ones usually fail fairly easily being they are usually made with a cheep plastic diaphragm inside of them 

[zfrilly]

Well, I just finishe what I was going to do for my vacuum sytem and thanks to that advice I went out and baught a check valve today and installed it. Minus the body work and tune I was done, or so I thought. Oh well, I'd rather do it at least half assed correct, meaning even if I use used or knock off parts for now.

[zfrilly]

Could I use this?      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fuel-Management-Unit-FMU-Pressure-Regulator-Red-Turbo_W0QQitemZ250518395869QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3a540f5bdd

[Chris Horoho]

That might work but just be careful
and you want about a 6:1 ratio

[zfrilly]

Thanks, I can get it ordered tonight. That means I should have the fuel sytem somewhat up to par. Should I change to the 954 injectors or don't bother?

[Chris Horoho]

If they fit I would but I'd check to see if they are bigger for the added fueling help

[zfrilly]

They will fit. They spray pattern is supposed to be better, I think they may be a few cc's larger. It has been very hard to find info. If I remeber correctly they are Keihen injectors. Do I NEED larger injectors, will I be pushing mine too far? Where can I check? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just so happy to find people who have actually done this. The only experiance I have is with cars. My Mustang fuel system cost about $1300. I understand the importance, I just wasn't sure how good the stock stuff was on such a small engine. Seems like it may come overkill from the factory.

[WerxRacing]

U put a Aeromotive system on your stang? i try to keep Pinky away from there pumps when doing his build last year but he put it on anyway. lol. I would never put there stuff on my mustangs when i built them. Also no Paxton fuel system products. But I just been n the game & seen to much go wrong with them. others love Aeromotive.. I would like more info on the Mustang also. maybe a post on it later.

[zfrilly]

No problem, the Mustang is a whole other project. I need to get this bike done, it's been on the back burner too long.
There are some post of the Mustang over at Fireblades. I hate directing people to other sites, but it's just so much easier.


http://fireblades.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=1941

[WerxRacing]

it is ok to name other sites. some people get mad, but Pinky even posted a link to name a bunch or good sites for more help & info. so we all here will go look & help no matter what. other sites do not like to hear of others. lol

[zfrilly]

I started a thread here. It's a shortened version of the whole story. i just don't know how to post picks. I need to post some of the airbox flange as well. I'll do it this weekend. I got that cheap FMU/FPR ordered, we'll see how it works. It's gotta be better than what I was gonna use, nothing. I'll feel better doing it as I was thinking thats what I needed to do anyways. I just hate spending the money. For some reason I want to be a cheap ass on this. I saw somewhere in here about spending the money three times, well thats me probably.

[zfrilly]

Still wondering what to do about a radiator overflow.

[WerxRacing]

after market like the summit one for the stangs???

[zfrilly]

Too large to fit anywhere. I didn't know what you guys are doing.

[zfrilly]

I noticed the Busa's have an entirely different style overflow and can be used with a turb. Anyways. Here is a link to a video explaining how the airbox mounts to the throttle bodies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qaIVJ8B1o

[Chris Horoho]

the owner of this site owns a machine shop
and im sure he is willing to make something that will work for you
he also designs things for a living

oh by the way that is me lol

[zfrilly]

 Looks like I found the right place for sure! I had two years of vocational schooling for tool and die myself. Problem is I have no access to the right tools. If we can work something out that would be great! I've always thought of a plate that would bolt down and then weld on tubes to adapt to an airbox like you guys run. I could send you a spair airbox I have if that would help. I also have another set of throttle bodies.

[OzBooster]

Or a plenum with removable top or sections of the top (like the zx12 does) and bolt the plenum direct to the throttlebodies ??
i'll ask my mate what he did

[zfrilly]

Was your buddies bike yellow? I saw one for sale in OZ that was turboed. He had an intercooler sitting on top basically it was his airbox. The plenum with a removable top is what I've pictured, but I just found a pic of one that wasn't like that. It would be a real PITA to get it installed without, but it must be possible.
 On a good note. I talked with Pinky about perhaps fabricating one for me. It offers a lot of benefits. I'm sure it will seal. It may have the capability for secondaries at a future date (didn't ask him about that) It will look like a professional did it, not a hack amature. I'm gonna see what we can do.

[OzBooster]

No not yellow, seen that one featured in our Rapid mag last year but can't remember much detail, missed Brett yesterday will try again today

[zfrilly]

 Figured out, at least I think I have, what I'm doing for a radiator overflow. I got a large flask, 12oz, and will be able to tuck it away. I measured mine. It holds 8oz at the low line, and 12 at the top on the stock one.

[zfrilly]

Took my bike to the Dyno two weeks ago. It ran like shit and put out 63hp. I thaught it may have something to do with my header. My tuner looked into it and found that the bike was only running on two cylinders. He got it taken car of and running on all 4. Yesterday (Sat) I spent the day there trying to get this thing going good.
 At first anything over 1/4 throttle was causing us problems. We tried changing the main harness, swapping ECU's, with and without the power commander. Nothing worked. We then disconnected the TPS and it got better. I had and extra TPS laying around so we swapped it. That was our problem. We then started making some pulls.
 The first couple of pulls we ran without the PC since we couldn't get it to talk to the computer. I had a 6:1 FMU installed and the base pressure set to around 50lbs. I watched the gauge as we made some runs and it never increased with boost. We tried with and without the FMU. Not much change. We tried with just the FMU and no FPR. It wouldn't run. Does the FMU show a pressure change on the FPR gauge?
 We did get some solid pulls. Around 170hp. Problem was around 6500, when the boost starts, the engine goes very lean for a moment and then starts making up for the lack of fuel. We kept plugging along. There wasn't much we could do for the tune bieng that the PC was having problems.

 So as of right now I have about 170hp and 90 lbs torque. I ran the sealed plastic airbox and it held fine. I pushed around 8-9lbs of boost into it. My tuner thinks we will be able to get another 20-30% with a way to tune the fueling and timing. Now I just need to locate another PC IIIr for my bike.