Injector question

[Moparict]

I replaced the stock injectors with S2000 injectors.  Just how much richer do these injectors flow compared to stock?

To be more to the point, the bike is pig rich right now on 91 fuel.   I am going to run it on E85 but I just wanted to make sure that everything worked before I started tuning on E85.  Also, it would give me a reference point as to just how much fuel I needed to add to the maps before putting in the E85.

[buzard]

e85? thats alot more fuel. like 27% more if they are comparable to an auto in fuel usage. s2000 are not really that big (20 percent or less 270-320cc). i don't know, but not sure they will be big enough.

[Chris Horoho]

he is also running secondaries so he will have enough injector he will just need to bump the map a bit


270 cc stock to 320 cc s2000's are a about 18-19% larger as buz said
so id say another 10-20% in the map for starters and drop back a bit if rich
but E85 likes to be rich and actually runs a little better on the rich side (just a touch)

[buzard]

hate to even gurss what woulld be right. do the math based on 30% and start from there. be careful. good move with the E85. if i had a street turbo with big hp i would run it for sure. cheap and crazy octane.  be sure to post the results. new ground for most of us for sure.

[Chris Horoho]

hate to even gurss what woulld be right. do the math based on 30% and start from there. be careful. good move with the E85. if i had a street turbo with big hp i would run it for sure. cheap and crazy octane.  be sure to post the results. new ground for most of us for sure.

yes
my call would be start rich!!
then back down from there
and around here its everywhere
it would be nice if it was leagal for some of the series id like to run in when done but that aint happening lol

[Moparict]

Going to get a jug of E85 today and start getting it tuned in a bit.

Thanks for the help.  I know it is rich now.  If I start the bike up it will smoke you out of the garage.  I need to richen it up a bit more and then try the E85.  I just want to get it somewhat close before it heads to a dyno.

[smithabusa]

s2000's are 380cc ish, stockers are about 280cc so about 35% increased flow, probably actually pretty close in the ballpark for E85.

[buzard]

according to honda they are 370 and you may begin to see malfunction at anything over 340. checked with honda and the s2000 guy here who road races a set of them. very reliable, but do not like to be over 85% for any period of time. he is also interested in your findings. he is going to convert his m109 after the talk i had with him. guy is a brain. (he also said the sets he sends in average flow is 360 max.)

[buzard]

keep the updates coming. i would love to do this to a street bike.

[sportbikeryder]

FYI:

Stock: 276cc @ 43psi

CBR1100: 346cc@43psi (25% larger than stock)

S2000: 390cc @ 43psi (41% larger than stock)

Your results may vary due to different viscosity / specific gravity test fluid, machine calibration, etc. These were all done on the same machine in the same shipment (along with three other sets of 1100XX injectors within ~5cc's of the posted number for 1100XX).



John

[Chris Horoho]

thank u guys for the sizing correction

[buzard]

FYI:

Stock: 276cc @ 43psi

CBR1100: 346cc@43psi (25% larger than stock)

S2000: 390cc @ 43psi (41% larger than stock)

Your results may vary due to different viscosity / specific gravity test fluid, machine calibration, etc. These were all done on the same machine in the same shipment (along with three other sets of 1100XX injectors within ~5cc's of the posted number for 1100XX).



John

btw where did you get this. info is off from honda and other soarses. just curious.
cool, but the s2000 will only flow 360 when tested (4 sets)

[buzard]

http://www.cbrxx.com/honda-cbr-xx-resource-center/837-larger-injectors-for-xx.html
found it

[buzard]

http://psychobike.com/forums/tuning-performance/38104-turbo-e85-s2000-injectors.html

[sportbikeryder]

btw where did you get this. info is off from honda and other soarses. just curious.
cool, but the s2000 will only flow 360 when tested (4 sets)

I had a set of stock, s2000 and four sets of 1100XX injectors cleaned / tested in one batch, using the same machine and solvent. As with a dyno, the numbers themselves ae relative, but the differential (%) should be accurate.

[sportbikeryder]

These were test results from wahile ago by "Elixxer":






I posted this last year on Suz hayabusa.org here:
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=138302.msg1311823#msg1311823


Like I said though , just another data point 

[Moparict]

That's the numbers I've been hunting.  I'll keep this going as I tune and get things going. 

My mother in law had a heart attack yesterday.  I am in the process of getting my wife out to see her mom now.  We are in Wichita, mother in law is in PA.  So, the bike will have to wait a couple of days until things settle down. 

I did find a dyno operator here in Wichita, actually Andover, KS, that has a bunch of experience tuning on E85.  He has already done my friends all motor bike and picked up 5.5hp over the map for 91 fuel.  We don't have anything higher than 91 available at the pump.  This was the largest determining factor in my wanting to change to E85.  It is available and has the higher octane rating I'm after.  I watched a few turbo cars go high 8's and low 9's on E85 and drive all over the city with absolutely no problems.  I figured if they could do it, so could I.

[Moparict]

Just to add, there is a fella on SuzukiHayabusa.Org that has already converted to E85 with a smallish turbo and made 277hp.  I think his SN is Servion or something like that.

[buzard]

very cool to see numbers on paper vs he said. anyone do a 14 yet?

[Moparict]

The bike I was referring to (my buddy) is a 14.  I can't talk him into a turbo yet.  I'm trying.

[buzard]

be interested in the n/a results also.

[servion]

Hey everyone, I just found this board thanks to Pinky, thought I'd join up.  I'm pretty new to bikes, but I've done a ton of tuning on cars and I have a ton of experience in engine setups, turbo setups, dyno tuning, etc. 

We started playing with e85 years ago and its awesome.  105 octane on paper, but you can get away with a lot more than you can with straight gasoline that is 105 octane.  I make 650whp on my 11:1 2.0 liter honda motor on e85, it didnt even blink, wanted more :)

I just boosted my 2005 busa, 100% stock motor.  RCC stage 1 but I built my own fuel system and I'm running an Autronic SM4 standalone.  If you didn't see the charts elsewhere, here's the info.  Back to back, same day, same boost (6.5psi at redline), only changes are the calibration and the fuel (91 to e85).

91 versus e85 back to back.


all-motor versus e85


plot of boost and a/f (reading gasoline a/f units, but its e85)


I want to mention that I'm on a dyno dynamics car dyno, which reads lower than "car" dynohets, but I'm also at high altitude (Colorado) so the corrcetion factor is overinflated.  The thing to take from this is the changes.  A dyno is just a tool, the MPH at the track shows the actual power.  The dyno lets us track changes and do tuning, so look at what I gained over all-motor, and what I gained switching to alcohol.

E85 cools valves, combustion chambers, etc. bigtime - you can pretty much get away with murder with it LOL

Feel free to ask any questions if ou want to know anything, I'll try to help.  Probably tuned well over 100 cars on this stuff by now.