600+HP with MicroSquirt as Piggyback???? ***PING Gsxturbo***

[1BADASSBUSA]

A little update, I am selling my RCC Stage II Intercooled Hayabusa Turbo on SH.org: http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=121807.0


In it's place I will be installing a custom kit i am having welded up for me with a FORCE 3065 Turbo, HKS SSQ BOV, and a RCC Ultra Plenum.  The Turbo is good for 650HP @ 100% VE, but spools up faster than any turbo of it's size.  I am shooting for 600-625HP with a 1397cc motor.







I am planing on using the factory ECU to run off boost and a MicroSquirt and Innovate DL32 & LC-1 to control the 4 injectors on the Ultra plenum.  Here is what I would like to do, let me know if I can and any thoughts you may have.

Hook the Microsquirt to Wideband O2 (via the LC-1), MAP Sensor and RPM Input, using those input to manage the off BOOST fuel supplied by the Microsquirt.  Will this work so I can use the Lamba O2 sensor for closed loop running?

Would any other factory sensors increase tunability?

I am going this route because I like the idea of using WB O2 sensors in closed loopin a piggyback application.  Plus I want to get use to the MS programming, before I jump to the Motec M400 I have going on my T71 Twin Entry Turboed bike.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Hey PINK, told you I would post.  And you thought I had no love for you man.....LOL

[Gsxturbo]

Im not that up to date on the micro i do know if your running low ohm injectors for the secondaries you will need a P&H board because it wont do it on its own. Will it supply enough fuel for 600hp YES it will do what your wanting to do but like i said im not that up to date on them for the simple fact they are for the guy who what to fuel inject his bike that had carbs on it not necessarily for the guy wanting to do lots of stuff like like the extra code does not to say you cant do it but its easier for me to setup the regulat MS to do what we do with the turbo bikes.

Now if it was me i would get a 2.2 board a P&H board (if your using low ohm injectors) your LC-1 a palm pilot a 4bar map sensor and your set the nice thing about this is the P&H board will fit inside the 2.2 case and all you need is the LC-1 and the palm to datalog with.

None of the factory sensors are of any need for the MS you will need a open element air temp sensor and possibly a coolant temp sensor and thats it.

Well the software between the two is nothing alike so i dont know how much you would be able to take from the MS and apply to the Motec but it never hurts to start somewhere.


Yes you can run closed loop under boost if you want thats no problem BUT i wouldnt till the fuel map is really close say 5-10% everywhere then you could run under closed loop another thing to consider is the O2 sensors do not last long if you running race fuel so if your boosting alot with it hooked up and race fuel you would always have that possibility of the sensor crapping out on you at the worse possible time.

[Matt Cramer]

A little update, I am selling my RCC Stage II Intercooled Hayabusa Turbo on SH.org: http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=121807.0
I am planing on using the factory ECU to run off boost and a MicroSquirt and Innovate DL32 & LC-1 to control the 4 injectors on the Ultra plenum.  Here is what I would like to do, let me know if I can and any thoughts you may have.

Hook the Microsquirt to Wideband O2 (via the LC-1), MAP Sensor and RPM Input, using those input to manage the off BOOST fuel supplied by the Microsquirt.  Will this work so I can use the Lamba O2 sensor for closed loop running?

You can use the Microsquirt to drive auxiliary injectors, and it can run in closed loop here. The fact that it's not controlling all the fuel could throw a bit of a wrinkle into things, however - the stock computer may also try doing some sort of correction. But it's worth a try. As GSXTurbo said, don't engage the closed loop until you have it tuned - closed loop capacity is not a substitute for a good VE table.

You'll want to use high impedance injectors unless you're using peak and hold boards or injector resistors. If you want resistors, you could get the resistor pack off a mid '90s Honda Civic. But you can probably find high impedance injectors for this.

Would any other factory sensors increase tunability?

The Microsquirt will at least need an IAT sensor, and preferably its own coolant temperature sensor too.

[1BADASSBUSA]

Matt, you're from DIYAutoTune.com???  LOVE the website, I have read every page......LOL  I will be purchasing ALL my MS items from you...  LOL funny to find you guys here.

Thanks for the replys.

OK, the Ultra Plenum has 4 High Imp. Injectors, so that should be no problem.

The factory Hayabusa ECU works on an OPEN LOOP set-up, so the factory computer will not try and make any corrections.  They just run the Map that they are burnt with.  So even if the MS makes corrections with O2 sensor, I don't believe it should be effected by the factory ECU, since that will not make any changes.

What type of IAT sensors do I need to use?

Where does the 2nd water temp sensor need to go, can it go in the radiator???

[Matt Cramer]

Matt, you're from DIYAutoTune.com???  LOVE the website, I have read every page......LOL  I will be purchasing ALL my MS items from you...  LOL funny to find you guys here.

Yes, I handle tech support there. The mods invited us.

The factory Hayabusa ECU works on an OPEN LOOP set-up, so the factory computer will not try and make any corrections.  They just run the Map that they are burnt with.  So even if the MS makes corrections with O2 sensor, I don't believe it should be effected by the factory ECU, since that will not make any changes.

Ok, that sounds good.

What type of IAT sensors do I need to use?

Easiest one to use is the GM style open element version.

Where does the 2nd water temp sensor need to go, can it go in the radiator???

While not ideal if it were the main injector controller, it shouldn't be a big problem for an auxiliary injector controller.

[1BADASSBUSA]

Matt, maybe someone on the board knows of a location on a Hayabusa for a second water temp sensor?  Could I tap into the factory Water Temp Sensor?  I will have to have the plenum modded to fit a secondary IAT sensor, but that should be no big deal.  I can order all the sensors for you guys when I order the MS, correct? 

I know the MS and the Motec are different programs, but the theory should be the same.  I want to start tunning off a Dyno and really just want to get an idea on what effects what.

[Gsxturbo]

Thanks Matt for clearing things up.  Yes you can tap into the radiator for the second temp sensor if you want or into the radiator hose like the fan switch relocator does .

Since your not running low ohm injectors the uS will do just fine like it is with no other boxes or resistors.

You will need probably a 4 bar map sensor since your going to shoving quite a bit of boost to it so talk to Matt on witch sensor you will need for that.

[OzBooster]

Trouble with going from one engine management system to another is there is no textbook for the builders setting standards , each system has its own language  and it takes a while to become familiar with it .


Also why m400 and not m800

[1BADASSBUSA]

Gsxturbo: which 4 BAR MAP sensor will work with the MicroSquirt???  Where can I purchase one?  Can I get it from DIY???

OzBooster:  The Motec M400 is for a 4 cylinder and The M800 is for an eight cylinder.

[Gsxturbo]

Gsxturbo: which 4 BAR MAP sensor will work with the MicroSquirt???  Where can I purchase one?  Can I get it from DIY???

OzBooster:  The Motec M400 is for a 4 cylinder and The M800 is for an eight cylinder.

Im not for sure on the correct one for the Micro but i think you could use the 4bar that DIY sells its like 70.00 it also has a second 4bar map sensor on board for constant barometric correction but Matt would be better suited to answer that question.

I know you can use the standard GM 3 bar map sensor with it but that will depend on how much boost you looking to make.

[OzBooster]

Gsxturbo: which 4 BAR MAP sensor will work with the MicroSquirt???  Where can I purchase one?  Can I get it from DIY???

OzBooster:  The Motec M400 is for a 4 cylinder and The M800 is for an eight cylinder.

  for some reason i was thinking of the older m4 /m48 and figured it was not like you to get an outdated system

[Gsxturbo]

The 3 bar is good to 29psi so i dont think that would really be an option for you. Let me do some digging on the 4bar setup for you.

[Gsxturbo]

I just asked over on the uS board and Bruce said yes you can use the 4bar map sensor from DIY for the uS it will probably have to be housed in its own enclosure to use it but it tiny so that shouldnt be a problem to do at all in fact if you need it done you can send the map board to me and i will fix you up with a enclosure for it for the cost of parts only.

 You also might be able to house it inside the uS enclosure but i would have to have the box here to see if it can be done neatly that way of not or Matt might be able to do it to the uS before you get it never hurts to ask.

[1BADASSBUSA]

for some reason i was thinking of the older m4 /m48 and figured it was not like you to get an outdated system

OH.....LOL 

Going to use am AEM Digital Dash/datalogger!!!  That bad boy also has a NLR Dry Sump Oiling (the 3 Stage, not the base model), baddest Twin Entry Header you ever saw mounted to the T71.... Lots of goodies.  You should see the sweet swing arm I got from Seb.  new builder and when I say the work is sweet, I mean it!!!

Would either of these work???  These are what Seb. (from NLR for those of you who live under a rock...LOL) use in his AMS-1000s:

Brand: AEM
Product Line: AEM MAP Sensor Kits
Part Type: MAP Sensors
Part Number: AVM-30-2130-50
MAP Sensor Style: Bosch
MAP Sensor Range (bar): 3.5 bar
MAP Sensor Range (psi): 50 psi
Wiring Harness Included: Yes

or

Brand: AEM
Product Line: AEM MAP Sensor Kits
Part Type: MAP Sensors
Part Number: AVM-30-2130-75
MAP Sensor Style: Bosch
MAP Sensor Range (bar): 5 bar
MAP Sensor Range (psi): 73 psi
Wiring Harness Included: Yes


They both look the same



Personally, I will not use that MAP sensor from MS, I know the one, it's PINK. I like a professional look and unless someone can CNC me one out of plastic or maybe carbo fiber, I will go with the nicer looking one.  My stuff has to be visually pleasing, not just functional.

[Chris Horoho]

HI JOEY






and by there way there isnt anything wrong with PINK

[1BADASSBUSA]

HI JOEY






and by there way there isnt anything wrong with PINK

HA HA HA.... You very very funny boy.......   But you understand, no one else get's it, dummy.....  Hows prego and the baby???  She will always be prego to me now....LOL

[Chris Horoho]

HA HA HA.... You very very funny boy.......   But you understand, no one else get's it, dummy.....  Hows prego and the baby???  She will always be prego to me now....LOL

they are both good and i think you need more pink on your bike






oh and HI JOEY lol

[1BADASSBUSA]

Here is a little taste of a few of the pieces going in the MONSTER!!!!  Thought you might like???

















I thought you would LIKE!!!!  

Seriously, I have pictures of about only 1/3 the stuff.  Those studs are 1 of only 6 sets in the world.    I like the best, even if it takes a while to build. I should be a nice build.  I will keep you guys posted on that build also.

[1BADASSBUSA]

they are both good and i think you need more pink on your bike






oh and HI JOEY lol

BLUE and SILVER, like I says befooa, THE FAST COLORS BITCH!!!!

Give Beth and the baby my Love, I will visit as soon as I can bro....  I'm serious.

[Gsxturbo]

The map sensor is not pink thats the color of the protective plastic baggy it comes in.LOL and its about the size of a quarter plus it will probably fit inside the uS case so no external wiring to worry about.