Shift Light on MS1

[smithabusa]

Tony,

On the phone you were saying I could use pin 10 and 11 on the CPU for shift light, I see what you mean about how it doesn't work the way you would expect.

Question for you, if I want to use that as the actual launch light and I thought I read in the manual somewhere you can use X4 as a RPM output. 

If I select Output 4 as RPM, then try and type in a value (no clue what i am doing here by the way) it tells me i can't go higher than 255 and it looks like a temp setpoint.

What I am doing wrong?

Greg

[Gsxturbo]

Tony,

On the phone you were saying I could use pin 10 and 11 on the CPU for shift light, I see what you mean about how it doesn't work the way you would expect.

Question for you, if I want to use that as the actual launch light and I thought I read in the manual somewhere you can use X4 as a RPM output. 

If I select Output 4 as RPM, then try and type in a value (no clue what i am doing here by the way) it tells me i can't go higher than 255 and it looks like a temp setpoint.

What I am doing wrong?

Greg

Ok you cant go  any higher than 255 because that is in raw adc value 255 would be 25500 rpm say you want it to come on at 7000 type in 70 and see what it does

[Gsxturbo]

You can also go into the nos section and use that as an output for the launch light  since your not running nos you can also use that to add fuel while setting on the two step just add the % fuel you want to add while its on and you can set it like normal also use pin11 for the upper limit so go into the shiftlight section set the upper limit dont worry about the lower then set tach out to pin 10.

In order for it to add fuel while on the two step you will need to make the pin6 on the JP1 header go low you could do this with a signal from the clutch switch so as soon as you let the clutch go it would go back to the normal fuel setting.

Like this

http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual_files/lowinput.jpg

[smithabusa]

You have a recommended source for buying transistors and baord etc?  The local electronics store has baord i think but if i remember correctly rediciuously expensive.  I dont have any transistors or anything to try it out so will have to order some up/.

[Gsxturbo]

You have a recommended source for buying transistors and baord etc?  The local electronics store has baord i think but if i remember correctly rediciuously expensive.  I dont have any transistors or anything to try it out so will have to order some up/.

Perf board you can get just about anywhere like radio shack or something like that get a big piece and cut it down to around 2x4 it will slide inside the case then and you can add the circuits you want.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/455/Perf_Boards.html

Or digikey will have them also
 
For the transistors look on ebay there are tons of surplus stock on 2n2222 transistors you might get some PNP's too i think they are 3905 but im not sure just lookup transistors and you will see i usually buy them 200 at a time for like 10.00.

Also get some 1k  1/4 watt resistors  and some 1n400x diodes you will need them also.

[smithabusa]

Dumb question as I am new to transistors etc.  What is the significance of the 1000 ohm resistor?  You have a 0 or 5 volt signal coming from pins 10 and 11 right?  Is that what is requires (1000 ohm) to bring the signal down enough for the transistor? 

What I am wondering if I want to complete this circuit using the clutch signal ground using a transistor (instead of a mechanical relay like i normally use) what resistor should i need?

[smithabusa]

I shot you an email also, somehow i locked up X4, its all grayed out, i tried and it lights up on the bottom of the screen when i go over 10,600 RPM like i told it, I il lhave to figure out which pin that works and get a transistor working off it.

[Gsxturbo]

Ok hold on i will see whats going on send me your msq in an email and i will fix it for you.

[Gsxturbo]

Is it X4 or output 4?

If its X4 go into coadebase ouputs and function and change it from boost control to output 1

If its output 4 change LED 18 to output 4 in the same place.

[smithabusa]

Is it X4 or output 4?

If its X4 go into coadebase ouputs and function and change it from boost control to output 1

If its output 4 change LED 18 to output 4 in the same place.

Its Output 1 (X4 / JS2)

[smithabusa]

Cool went to the codebase and output function and changed it from b control to output 1, seems to have fixed it, you the man

I think i realized what to do on the launch light, just use the clutch signal ground as the Emitter going into the transistor i think.

[Gsxturbo]

Yep that will work that way when the clutch is in the emitter will receive the ground signal and flow through the collector.

[smithabusa]

do transistors care whats on the collector side?  meaning can you run the output of the shift light and launch light to the same location (using just 1 LED cluster). Putting a ground on the collector when nothing is at the base, that cause problems?  Man this is fun stuff

[smithabusa]

Im excited now to get a tach output working (assuming i need more transistors LOL) and be able to test my 2 steps and shift lights etc without ever having to start a bike.  right now i have no pulse generator for a fake tach signal

[smithabusa]

X4 i have now setup as 7000 RPM, I get a voltage of 12 volts below 7000 rpm if i take a probe to the +12 volt input on the stim and the other probe on X4, when it goes over 7000 RPM it goes to 7 volts, its changing, just dont understand what its doing LOL

[smithabusa]

Cool on the screen anyway i have setup as the launch light to play with 5000-5500 RPM and have Output 1 (X4) set to 10,600 RPM for the shift light.  Works in theory anyway LOL

[Gsxturbo]

Ok where working with logic level stuff so when the set point is not met it should be low or 0v now when the set point is met the pin will go high or 5v logic level that will turn the transistor on just like a switch.


Now if the signal is high then goes low its the opposite the transistor will stay on till the set point is met then it will go off

This is with NPN type transistors with PNP its the opposite but instead of flowing ground to the collector it will  flow a + 5v or 12V witch ever you have hooked the the emitter.

[smithabusa]

Ok where working with logic level stuff so when the set point is not met it should be low or 0v now when the set point is met the pin will go high or 5v logic level that will turn the transistor on just like a switch.


Now if the signal is high then goes low its the opposite the transistor will stay on till the set point is met then it will go off

This is with NPN type transistors with PNP its the opposite but instead of flowing ground to the collector it will  flow a + 5v or 12V witch ever you have hooked the the emitter.

Thats how i thought it was supposed to work (0 or 5 volt) should i be putting the probe somewhere else besides the battery connection on the stim?  The only way i can see something change is to put red lead on the + terminal on the stim, and the negative lead on X3 or X4, it goes from 12 volts when conditions aren't met to 7 volts when conditions are met.

[Gsxturbo]

Yeah your getting a 5v ground signal thats why it reads 12v when its off and 7 when its on.

You can still use pin 11 for your upper limit shift light  but pin 10 wont work no more when your using it as a tach out then you will gain the general purpose output back.

[smithabusa]

Yeah your getting a 5v ground signal thats why it reads 12v when its off and 7 when its on.

You can still use pin 11 for your upper limit shift light  but pin 10 wont work no more when your using it as a tach out then you will gain the general purpose output back.

its not supposed to work that way though is it?  The diagram in the manual states to use a NPN transistor

[Gsxturbo]

Yeah your getting a 5v ground signal thats why it reads 12v when its off and 7 when its on.

You can still use pin 11 for your upper limit shift light  but pin 10 wont work no more when your using it as a tach out then you will gain the general purpose output back.

its not supposed to work that way though is it?  The diagram in the manual states to use a NPN transistor

Whats not supposed to work that way? You can use a PNP or NPN depending on what your trying to do you can even use a PNP to trigger a NPN or vice versa depending on what your trying to do.

[smithabusa]

I just mean that I am getting a 5 volt ground out of X3 and X4?  I haven't added anything to the board, just probing it with a voltmeter with the stim plugged in to see how it works.  From the manual i thought X3 and X4 were supposed to give 5 volts when activated on a stock board before adding transistors etc.

[Gsxturbo]

Yeah it should stay grounded till the set point is met then it will go high or 5v your getting full ground when its not met so you see 12v now when it goes does go high your meter is reading 7v because its feeding 5v through your ground lead and subtracting that from your 12v reading you where getting.

Im may be confusing you i do that to my self quite a bit.LOL

[smithabusa]

if it feeds 5 volt through my ground lead shouldnt i be able to see that by putting 1 lead on x4 and the other on the ground terminal of the stim where the battery would plug in?

[Gsxturbo]

Yes put your ground lead on the stim - terminal and the positive on the output x4-x5 ect and you should see 4.9 or so volts when it turns on.

[smithabusa]

I dont for some reason, but I just rememered why and it works LOL.  You gotta be regretting ever talking to me by now LOL.

Very strange thing between my wall plug and the blue block terminal.

Its plugged into the wall, everything works, but....

I now remember this when i first put it together.

I have continuity between the ground on the blue block and the ground in the wall plug receptacle.

I have continuity between the wall plug receptacle power (center pin) and blue block +.

I have continuity of power from blue block to receptacle center pin.

But I dont have continuity of ground.  I cant get a ground signal off of the - terminal on the blue block, even though it has continuity to the receptacle, if that makes any damn sense LOL.  I remember scratching my head on this when i put the stim together.

I cant read 12 volts across the blue block where the battery goes.  I can read the + side using the walls plugs outer casing as the ground, but not vice versa. 

Now using a real ground, I from the wall plug outer casing, and probing the + lead of my multimeter on X4, its 0 and 5 volts, HOLY MOLY!

[Gsxturbo]

Maybe there is a protective circuit built into the stim that keeps you from seeing anything from the battery terminal. My original stim was an older vr. then i got the jimstim so im not real sure on the stim you have with both the battery and wall wart plug on it but atleast you see how it works this is how almost any chip works logic level wise low is ground and high is 5v PWM is a different story.

No i dont regret talking to you most people dont want to even try this kind of stuff i enjoy messing around and seeing what i can tear up. LOL

[smithabusa]

Maybe there is a protective circuit built into the stim that keeps you from seeing anything from the battery terminal. My original stim was an older vr. then i got the jimstim so im not real sure on the stim you have with both the battery and wall wart plug on it but atleast you see how it works this is how almost any chip works logic level wise low is ground and high is 5v PWM is a different story.

No i dont regret talking to you most people dont want to even try this kind of stuff i enjoy messing around and seeing what i can tear up. LOL

Thanks very much for all your help Tony!  I did get the logger software installed, I logged an excel file, then opened it up and looked at the data, so i got that working unless there were other steps to take etc.

I sent you some beer (sorta) for all my damn questions, i know how it is when you are trying to get work done but can't get away from the keyboard LOL.

Greg

[Chris Horoho]

Maybe there is a protective circuit built into the stim that keeps you from seeing anything from the battery terminal. My original stim was an older vr. then i got the jimstim so im not real sure on the stim you have with both the battery and wall wart plug on it but atleast you see how it works this is how almost any chip works logic level wise low is ground and high is 5v PWM is a different story.

No i dont regret talking to you most people dont want to even try this kind of stuff i enjoy messing around and seeing what i can tear up. LOL

Thanks very much for all your help Tony!  I did get the logger software installed, I logged an excel file, then opened it up and looked at the data, so i got that working unless there were other steps to take etc.

I sent you some beer (sorta) for all my damn questions, i know how it is when you are trying to get work done but can't get away from the keyboard LOL.

Greg

he is great to deal with and is always willing to help
even someone like me lol who breaks everything lol

[smithabusa]

We are up to like 30 posts over a shift light LOL.

[Gsxturbo]

I can send you a log file from a busa on the road and you can see what it looks like and the tunning console is used to auto tune your ve table if you have a wide band you load your MSQ  you were using at the time of the datalog you open it in the tunning console and it will show your VE table in the screen then you can let the datalogger tune your table for you.

Also you will need to activate boost in psi and the type wide band your using let me send it to you the MSQ i sent you was from the datalog and you will need to activate LC-1 as the widband and show boost in PSI .

Give me a minute.

[smithabusa]

I can send you a log file from a busa on the road and you can see what it looks like and the tunning console is used to auto tune your ve table if you have a wide band you load your MSQ  you were using at the time of the datalog you open it in the tunning console and it will show your VE table in the screen then you can let the datalogger tune your table for you.

Also you will need to activate boost in psi and the type wide band your using let me send it to you the MSQ i sent you was from the datalog and you will need to activate LC-1 as the widband and show boost in PSI .

Give me a minute.

Cool Tony,

How do i get the VE table to recalculate once I have changed my req fuel value?  I redid the req fuel and still see a row of 16's i typed on the bottom to get the injector LED's to fire on the table with no boost signal.

[Gsxturbo]

I can send you a log file from a busa on the road and you can see what it looks like and the tunning console is used to auto tune your ve table if you have a wide band you load your MSQ  you were using at the time of the datalog you open it in the tunning console and it will show your VE table in the screen then you can let the datalogger tune your table for you.

Also you will need to activate boost in psi and the type wide band your using let me send it to you the MSQ i sent you was from the datalog and you will need to activate LC-1 as the widband and show boost in PSI .

Give me a minute.

Cool Tony,

How do i get the VE table to recalculate once I have changed my req fuel value?  I redid the req fuel and still see a row of 16's i typed on the bottom to get the injector LED's to fire on the table with no boost signal.

Thats the thing you dont need to reset anything in the VE you just reset it when you changed the req. fuel see the req fuel will scale the opening time back for the whole table so that table was for 42lb inj. with a higher req fuel now you just rescaled it by changing the req fuel lower .

Now this is not to say you wont need to do some tuning here and there but not the whole table thats what so nice you change one thing instead of starting all over again.  You can also scale the ve in the table but thats for a later discussion. 

[smithabusa]

Im a little confused LOL.  But maybe I understand, so the line row of 1's that were in there that I made into 16's i should go back and fix right?  Also if I remember correctly it seemed the boost didn't go all the way up to 250 kpa in that table, what happens when I change the values to go all the way up to 250 kpa, will it change things as I retype them in?

[Gsxturbo]

Yes the bottom row will need to be 1's to keep the inj off till in boost once the kpa point is reached 105 or what every you have the lowest kpa bin set to it will start firing the inj. if your just testing on the bench you can leave them like that . but before you put it on a bike it would need all the lowwer bins set to 1 and always 1 even if the datalogger changes them to 2 or 5 or whatever you will need to always keep them at 1.

Yes it will change them as you type but you will have to hit burn to burn them into flash or otherwise it will lose what you typed in when the power is cut.

I can send a table i made up for 22lbs of boost if that will help you out on the kpa bin part it might give you something to start from now this is a high as you can go with the 2.5 map sensor you have.

What i was saying about the required fuel part is, instead of changing the whole table because you have bigger inj. then what the map was made with ,all you do is change your req fuel instead .

Always leave it at what the MT calculates for your req. fuel unless your fine tuning your table and even then it not really necessary to change it.